LIVE NIRVANA INTERVIEW ARCHIVE December 10, 1993 - Minneapolis, MN, US
- Kurt Loder
- Michael Alex
- Kurt Cobain
- Krist Novoselic
- Dave Grohl
- Pat Smear
KURT LODER: Was this your idea, Annie?
ANNIE: No, no, this was not inspired by me.
PAT: This was Tammy Faye's idea. [Tammy Faye Bakker]
KURT LODER: Well, of course. The mother of us all.
KURT: What's she doing now? Didn't she re-marry?
KURT LODER: She just married someone else.
PAT: She married Jim Bakker's best friend or some shit.
KRIST: She moved to Calcutta and started to take care of…
DAVE: She married his accountant.
KURT LODER: Yea, right.
PAT: His accountant? THAT'S not sleazy!
DAVE: No, I don't know.
KURT: Whose got some Anacin or something? Ibuprofen?
ANNIE: I have Advil.
KURT: I've got cramps as well, so…
KURT LODER: There's Aspirin upstairs in the bathrooms.
DAVE: Annie, I'm feeling bloated.
PAT: And there's Alka-Seltzer in the mini-bar.
ANNIE: Do you need a lot of pills?
ANNIE: Do you want some Advil?
DAVE: I feel like a pig
KURT: It takes care of headaches, doesn't it?
ANNIE: Yes, and cramps.
KRIST: Oh fuck it. We'll have some Percodans, and Valiums…
PAT: Just get to the heart of the matter…
KURT LODER: How does it look? Good?
KURT: Is there an ashtray somewhere? Maybe we'll just have a community ashtray right here. Here we go… right under Dave's foot.
KRIST: I was talking about “Krist Novoselic the Suicide Therapist” Like, listen, you commit suicide then I pull out a business card… Kevorkian [referring to euthanasia activist Jack Kevorkian]… But that guy pulled into the court today, I saw him, in a blanket. He's been on a hunger strike - 11 days. I am the withered symbol…
KURT LODER: Of something…
KRIST: Of… what do they call that? That was… In Washington they had that initiative and it failed…
KURT LODER: Euthanasia?
KRIST: Euthanasia, “Right to Die”… I am the symbol for the “Right to Die”. Pro-lifers are like pro-lifers on both ends… Fetuses and chronically dead people falling apart…
KURT LODER: Chronically dead people.
PAT: But they're pro-death penalty, you're forgetting that…
KURT LODER: Moment of silence… Okay, we're going. Okay. We'd like to get some information on Shonen Knife. Could you tell that story again? Cuz that was a great story. Anecdotes on Shonen Knife.
DAVE: Well, I remember the first time we played a show with them was in England. We did about 10 shows with them and the first night, we were just playing these smaller places like 1,000 capacity places - if that, and uh, the crowds were just like beer-swilling, you know, English boys and they came up on stage and they looked kind of frightened… And they got up on stage and everyone just thought “what the fuck? what is this?” You know, “what kind of…” and, uh, and so they went into their first song and everyone just seemed sort of baffled and next couple songs people… They won over the audience by the end of the night, but I remember…
KURT: Every show they won over the audience after 2 songs or so. It was amazing.
DAVE: Every show people were like almost in tears and for us to see that every night.
KRIST: Yeah, I was choked up.
DAVE: It would really choke you up and I remember the first person that came over the crowd onto the stage they all just leapt back like “oh my god!” you know, “someone's out to get us!”
KURT: I was an emotional sap the whole time. I cried every night.
DAVE: You couldn't help it, you had to hold it in…
KRIST: If you were some kind of weird idealist, you know, there's all of the sudden there's that lyric “lollipops for everyone” that was just like… that's when I lost it.
KURT: “Don't sing in Japanese or I'm gonna burst!”
KURT LODER: So is America ready for this, do you think? I mean, can this fly in this country, do you suppose?
KURT: Yeah, I hope so. It seems a bit overdue now.
KURT LODER: Yeah.
KURT: I don't know. I don't understand what's going on with the record company, it doesn't seem like they're being promoted very much. At least I haven't seen any ads or anything. You just don't hear about 'em very often until they're ready to go on tour with us again.
KURT LODER: Well it's sort of in the grand tradition of like… The Ramones never had hit records. I mean… why is this, ya know?
KURT: Yeah, I don't understand it. But if they weren't…
KRIST: There will be some revival of the Shonen Knife thing in 2009 or 2010, like that…
KURT: Yeah… it's too late.
KRIST: An early 90's revival and like, they're gonna all draw from it.
KURT: We'll re-form.
KURT LODER: Wow. You're doing a good thing by having them out here. What do you think of them as musicians?
DAVE: They're wonderful. They're great.
KURT: Great. I don't know how to define “a musician”.
KURT LODER: Have they explained any of the lyrics to their songs to you in any cogent way?
KRIST: What's that Madonna song? "Express yourself… You've got to make it. Hey hey hey hey…”
KURT: I agree with that. Um, what was the question?
KURT LODER: The question was have they explained any of their lyrics to you?
KURT: No, the communication's pretty small. Francis is usually the mediator. I mean, it's really hard to talk to them and vice versa, you know, the language barrier is pretty intense, so…
DAVE: But when they do 'Heat Wave’… the language barrier just…
KRIST: I've read their lyric sheets too and it's just like… that's good.
KURT: No, I've never had to have any explanation because I've seen most of their lyrics printed in English…
KURT LODER: Yeah…
KURT: … and most of their songs are sung in English, so…
KURT LODER: True, true. They're great. We love them. I wanted to ask you, what's it like playing with these guys as opposed to playing with your previous group?
PAT: Oh, it's kinda the same…
KURT LODER: Well, that's good. That's good.
KURT: You mean, you callin' me Darby? [Darby Crash from the Germs who also did heroin]
PAT: And now he's got the same problem.
KURT LODER: Oh, Gee, I hope not. I hope that's not true. Could you tell us something about getting together with William Burroughs and working on that record? What he was like?
KURT: Um, it was a long-distance recording. I think he had already done his piece and then I, at the last minute, we were in Seattle and we were over at Dave's friend's house, Barrett, and he has a little.. what, like a 16-track or something, it's a little studio.
DAVE: An 8-track.
KURT: And he just turned the DAT machine and I just masturbated for about 20 minutes and then sent it to them and they edited it.
KURT LODER: So you didn't actual meet him anytime?
KURT: Not at that time but just recently, when we were in Kansas City, I met him.
KURT LODER: What did you make of him?
KURT: Um, I don't know, that's a hard question. I mean, someone that I've admired all my life, ya know. Um, to meet him was just a big thrill. I was really nervous the whole time. I just… It was kind of uncomfortable, in a way. I mean, although he was really accommodative and everything and nice, ya know but…
KRIST: What about the cobwebs in that… 'something box’… orgone machine.
KURT: I sat in this orgone machine and there were black widows in there.
KURT LODER: Orgone box.
KURT: Yeah, he still has one.
KURT LODER: Amazing.
KURT: Yeah, and I was afraid cuz I have arachnophobia and he had to kill all the spiders for me.
KURT LODER: He probably enjoyed that.
KURT: He was great. He took me over to his house which is like 2 blocks away, this other house where he does most of his art.
KURT LODER: Yeah.
KURT: He's done some amazing art, I didn't realize how much of an accomplished artist he was, you know. He really has done some great stuff. He uses all kinds of instruments from toilet plungers to spatulas. He dips them in paint and splats them all over things with pretty cool results. I was amazed.
KURT LODER: He must be like 80 years old by now, isn't he?
KURT: Yeah, he is. About that… he just turned 70 something.
KURT LODER: Wow.
KURT: 78, 79 and still ticking.
KURT LODER: As a fan, what did you make of ‘Naked Lunch’ the movie? Do you think that captured the book at all?
KURT: Yeah, I thought it was as good as Hollywood could probably do, ya know.
KURT LODER: Yeah.
KURT: I really enjoyed the movie, yeah.
KURT LODER: What did I want to ask you… I wanted to get a little bit of sort of your early history if possible, just about what life was like in Aberdeen cuz I think a lot of people grow up in towns like Aberdeen.
KRIST: Have you been to Aberdeen?
KURT LODER: I've never been to Aberdeen.
KURT LODER: But I grew up in a very tiny town too so I just wondered if you…
KRIST: Where at?
KURT LODER: In New Jersey.
KURT LODER: Really tiny.
KRIST: Yeah, it's weird, where we are it's just like Boise [Idaho], Spokane [Washington], Seattle, Olympia, Aberdeen… China. You know, it's like… no train route.
KURT LODER: Not a lot to do there, is that what you're saying?
KURT: I've never gone swimming in the ocean and I've lived next to the ocean my whole life.
KRIST: I did. Oh, I got pulled out by the rip tide and all of the sudden I got spooked and I saw, there was like, something poked out at me, it was a sea lion like lookin’ at me, and I see all the breakers on the shore.
DAVE: Then here comes Slash, just like [guitar solo]
KRIST: And I crossed myself and thanked John Paul the 2nd.
KURT LODER: Well that leads right into my next question cuz I want to find out what everybody thinks now that all 3 episodes of the Guns [n Roses] video is out…
KRIST: I haven't seen the last one…
PAT: Now it makes sense, Yeah, haha.
DAVE: I get it!
KURT LODER: Any thoughts? Like…
KURT: I think they still have something up their sleeve. Maybe there will be a 4th.
KRIST: What ever happened to John Paul the 1st? I mean how many days was he in the vatican, and he died? That's what I get out of that…
KURT LODER: So there's no definitive answer on that. I'm puzzled by that video too. Have you guys worked with Iggy [Pop]?
KURT LODER: I noticed you thank him on your liner notes.
DAVE: I played drums for him one time.
KURT: Oh yeah, you did.
DAVE: A long time ago when I was in a band called Scream and we were playing at a club and Iggy Pop was having a record release before our show and he was just gonna stand up and play guitar and sing all the stuff from his 'Brick By Brick' album and it sounded really bad I guess and so he just needed a drummer and so I played drums and the bass player of Scream played bass and we played 4 or 5 songs.
KURT LODER: How was it?
DAVE: It was fucking great. He's a really really nice guy.
KURT LODER: Yeah he is.
DAVE: Easy to work with.
PAT: I hung with him when I was about 15 and he was like at a…
KURT LODER: Peak!
PAT: … major loser stage, nobody knew who the fuck he was and he was just like going through my 15 year old girlfriend's purse going "Man, you got any like leaves, or something, anything in there?" Pushing him around in his wheelchair. Hanging out his window going "Anybody got any drugs, man?"
KURT LODER: Those were the days.
DAVE: … my friend.
PAT: Those were, weren't they.
KRIST: [singing] "We thought they'd never end…”
KURT LODER: I was talking to Mike Mills from R.E.M about you guys just a couple weeks ago.
KURT: Now THERE'S a party animal.
KURT LODER: There's a guy who just goes wild.
KURT: He is, really.
DAVE: He really is, I've seen him smoke more pot than Don Fleming.
KURT LODER: But he was saying he's glad he didn't have the sort of success that - that his band didn't have that sort of success foisted on them at your age. He said it's really hard to handle it when you're young. Do you feel that's conceivably true?
KURT: Hm. I'm older and wiser. It's been a few years.
KRIST: Yeah, sure, yeah.
KURT: You really don't know everything when you're in your early 20s, believe it or not.
KURT LODER: And some probably don't know everything at any time.
KRIST: Like, my testicles are totally tight up here and then after I went through all this they hung… That's how hung up I was.
KURT LODER: Do you remember when you were kids, like, the first music that you heard that turned you on was it actually rock stuff or was it maybe some lame sort of music…
KRIST: That turned me on? Yeah but like in 6th grade...
KURT LODER: Yeah
KRIST: Or 5th grade… KISS or like, Elton John or whatever was on Top 40 kinda rockin', Sweet. ‘Ballroom Blitz’. I remember when ‘Ballroom Blitz’ was on the radio and I had this like RadioShack recorder and so I put it on record and I put it up to the speaker and I cranked it and I was like fuckin' rockin’ out, then I played it back and it was so distorted.
KURT: It made it probably better
KRIST: And I like never thought that if I cranked it… I thought that Sweet… This song is so rockin’ that you can't even record it, man. That's what I thought. It was too hard rock.
KURT LODER: When did punk arrive where you guys were living? I mean, did it come on time? 1977 or a little later?
KURT: Let's just say that people were still wearing bell bottoms in 1987.
KURT LODER: Wow. But surely there was a small enclave of people that would get the records, right?
KURT: No, not when it came out. Absolutely not. I really doubt if anyone, you know, bought ‘Nevermind the Bollocks’ or, you know, or anything like that. Not in those days.
KRIST: No way, that's 1977 but people were buying like Butthole Surfers' first record, and…
KURT: By the mid-1980s, yeah the mid-1980s
KRIST: Like ‘My War’ Black Flag
KURT: But you still had to go to Seattle to get it. It never came to…
KRIST: Or Olympia, you could go to Olympia and get them
KURT: Yeah, Olympia
KURT LODER: Wow. Do you go back and visit Aberdeen a lot, or?
KRIST: I do
KURT: I can't even remember the last time I was there
KRIST: Cuz I got my old family there and a bunch of old-timers there, like, people who are really old like Clayton Geesey and stuff and those guys are like the old…
KURT: My uncle's father?
KRIST: Yeah, yeah
DAVE: Aren't you two related? These guys are related. They're related.
KURT: We didn't know that until like last year
KURT LODER: You're related?
DAVE: They're related
KRIST: Through Clayton Geesey
KURT LODER: In what way
DAVE: They all have 6 toes on each foot
KRIST: No, it's through marriage. It's like this weird marriage relation, but his uncle is my uncle.
KURT: But everyone in Aberdeen's related
KRIST: One way or another
DAVE: [mimics banjo from 'Deliverance']
KRIST: These people are so cool cuz they're the old time Washington people, the old time Aberdeen people and they're like total… full of respect and they're really neat and they remember all the old times and they're really cool to like talk to them
DAVE: Old-timer's disease
KURT LODER: Related, huh? I think this is great
KRIST: We have too much aluminum
KURT LODER: Looking back now at the sort of the whole Sub-Pop “grunge” thing, now that we can put it in the past I think, what do you make of it all, I mean do you think it was… hurt the music at all or hurt bands? or was it a good thing as a promotional vehicle?
KRIST: It was a good thing. Sure.
KURT: If someone wouldn't have come up with "grunge" it would have been called something else, you know?
KURT LODER: Did it ever have any meaning, do you think?
KURT: Did it ever have any what? meaning?
KURT LODER: Any meaning
KURT: Hmm, well I think it described the kind of guitar rock we were playing at the time pretty well. I thought it was an okay word.
KRIST: There was a scene, too. There was like bands like The Fluid and Tad and Mudhoney, Swallow, like the whole Sub-Pop scene
KURT: Let's not forget Blood Circus
KRIST: Oh, Blood Circus, thanks for reminding me and, um, it was like really cool. People would play shows. It was like no pretensions or anything, it was just like rock 'n roll bands...
KURT LODER: Yeah
KRIST: … intertwining with other rock 'n roll bands
KURT: It was the first time that I had seen an audience just get completely loose… you know, to break down all that cool barriers, you know, where people are trying to be punk or cool in the early and mid-1980s, you know, when we used to go to punk rock shows, you know, all of the sudden, you know, Sub-Pop was putting out records and we were all friends with these other bands and the audiences at the places like the Vogue and the Central - it was incredible. Like, people were diving all over each other and falling down drunk and smiling and vomiting and having a great time. You know, it was just… there were no inhibitions at that time so everyone decided “Let's have fun”, you know.
KURT LODER: Is it still possible to do that, do you think? I mean, does that still occur at all?
KRIST: Not in Seattle
KURT: Not in Seattle, no, we tried to play a show at the Crocodile a little while ago and it was one of the stiffest most uncomfortable shows I've ever played.
KRIST: People were just watching… expecting…
KURT LODER: Expecting what?
KURT: I don't know
KRIST: Expecting the ‘Nevermind’ phenomenon
DAVE: To fuck up
KRIST: To fuck up, yeah
KURT: I have to go to the bathroom, sorry.
KRIST: There's one right there
KURT LODER: Can you just go [with a] hand-held [microphone]? We're just gonna send the camera with you
MICHAEL ALEX: The Real World
DAVE: Lint. No, there's no lint in there
KURT LODER: Yeah, I think there is lint in there.
DAVE: Hey look I'm getting married.
KURT LODER: Is this a long time thing?
KURT LODER: You and Jennifer
DAVE: Our relationship? Hmm, couple years
KURT LODER: So the whole band's gonna be married, that's good.
DAVE: Except for Pat
KURT LODER: Yeah
PAT: Were you ever in the military?
KRIST: I got that a few times. “Were you ever in the military? Ever be overseas? Were you ever in the military?”
KURT LODER: Okay, so you guys went and got Steve Albini to produce your record which I thought-- struck me as a really good idea because I think production, as it's developed over the years, really seems to smooth out music a lot, you know. I think maybe more people should do that… Do you think that's true?
KURT LODER: I mean, you hear riffs that were once revolutionary and now they're on Aerosmith records and they're meaningless…
KRIST: Big. Everything's gotta sound big
KURT LODER: Yeah
KURT: To me it sounds flat and tame.
KURT LODER: Did you tell Albini you wanted something or did you just go to him because he had something
DAVE: He doesn't consider himself a producer. He's a recorder.
KRIST: He's got it and he will not let go of it. Like for Albini, you know, he's got his ethic, you know. You either do the song like 3 takes or 4 takes and they're like forget it, don't even record it, you know. So we went in there when all our chops are really strong. So we like… first take, we did all these songs, so like it caught his interest. Yeah it's like really narrow but really cool, really like hard and… about Albini's production
KURT: Oh, we weren't listening to you, we were talking about something else.
DAVE: About a blood blister
PAT: They were talking about blood and blisters. Yeah.
KRIST: I was trying to draw you in to this conversation
DAVE: I'm sorry
KURT: I'm sorry, let's start over
DAVE: Most of the songs on our record were first takes
KURT LODER: No overdubs just done straight forward?
DAVE: There were overdubs
KURT: No, there were guitar overdubs
KURT LODER: Has having Pat in the band changed the dynamic on stage?
DAVE: Makes it a lot more fun
KURT: Makes it easier for me especially [playfully slaps boom microphone]
KURT LODER: Yeah
KRIST: Yeah, yeah
DAVE: It gives everyone something to look at
KURT: Oh yeah, right. Half the time I don't even ever look at the other guys, I mean I have so much other, so many other things to concentrate on then I look over and I see Pat's smiling face and it just gives me a bit of hope, you know. Makes me feel good.
KURT LODER: I know I saw you guys at Roseland, I think what I saw is right, the stuff you're using on stage for like little stomp boxes are just little stomp-boxes, right? They're not $300 great big…
KURT: Oh, no they're old early 1970s Electro-Harmonix effects boxes.
KURT LODER: Wow, how do you keep that stuff going?
DAVE: Earnie Bailey
KURT: Yeah, our guitar friend - this guy who fixes - he can fix anything, a blender or a guitar… He's great.
KRIST: He's into old technology
KURT: They're kind of hard to find. Yeah. Those things are kind of hard to find and I guess they're becoming collector's items now
KURT LODER: I think there's a store in New York that collects that stuff
KURT: Hm hmm
DAVE: And probably sells it for exorbitant prices
KRIST: He knows like, like they use this capacitor, they use this transistor, because they use this poor-grade cheap transistor at the time that's what gave it that sound like if you used a modern transistor it wouldn't sound as cool.
KURT LODER: True
KURT: If you were to use the same schematic but used contemporary electronics you wouldn't get the same sound, you know what I mean?
MICHAEL ALEX: The Soviet Union…
KRIST: It's a Red Army pedal, they make them out of tanks and you go [noise] and crank on it…
MICHAEL ALEX: That's the technology that made that
KURT LODER: Really? Jesus…
KRIST: They're cheap metal, it's about that thick.
KURT: It's so heavy, the distortion box, it's just…
PAT: No, they're not as good
MICHAEL ALEX: They got a Big Muff
KRIST: That's a Big Muff, it's a total tank… tank materials, that's what they're made out of, it's like [noise] you stomp on it and the metal around it is like total thick and like that olive, drab… like, Soviet olive green color. It's just like… wow… amazing… Now you can buy a space suit in the Soviet Union..
KURT LODER: And run your guitar through it then
KRIST: Think about all the parties you can have like “Hey who am I?”
KURT LODER: So I have to ask you about the story of the moment since the only thing we cover of this, this Michael Jackson thing, what do you think is happening? What do you think?
KURT: We have no right to even…
KURT LODER: No no, I'm not asking you to speculate on his guilt or innocence.
KURT LODER: What do you think of just the uproar over it, like the…
KURT: I think it's ridiculous. It's a waste of time.
KRIST: They need a story. The press needs a story, doesn't matter what the story is, it's a story
PAT: Why don't you ask Latoya [Jackson], she'll do an interview with you
KURT LODER: Yeah. Latoya. What do you think of Latoya?
KRIST: The story is not, like, "Sarajevo”… it's "the starving child in Sarajevo" who's, like, foaming at the mouth and has, like, all this shell shrapnel in its back. The story is that - that child foaming at the mouth and not what's, like, going on there. It's like… a story. You got to have a story.
KURT: Why can Latoya pose nude with a snake but not have sexual relations with her sleazy, Las Vegas husband?
KURT LODER: A question for the ages. Who knows? I don't know. But I mean, all these people are… just because they're this big story in Vanity Fair about this and just… everybody involved in the story just seems like scum, I mean they just seem horrible. They just seem horrible.
PAT: Yeah, it's like “fuck you all”
KURT LODER: Yeah, it's just…
KRIST: All the story press it's like perspective… They've gotta get perspective on something. Like in Rolling Stone, how many perspectives have been written about the ‘60s - "The '60s, what it meant" and "where we are as, like, baby boomers" and all this shit. It's like perspective and story and, like, revisionism, and it's just fuckin' who knows what is it after that, you know? You read all this crap..
KURT: So, are the authorities calling Michael [Jackson] back to the states? Is he… Is he actually breaking a law right now?
KURT LODER: Not yet because he hasn't been charged with anything criminally but he has a civil suit pending and he's supposed to be here maybe this weekend.
PAT: In January. He has a deposition in January, I heard.
KURT: So, legally he isn't like, um, you know, jumping...
KURT LODER: No, he's not a fugitive. No, not yet.
KURT: So what's the big deal? He has all the right to be away until...
KURT LODER: Well, I think they think he's acting suspicious.
DAVE: So it's speculation
KURT LODER: Yeah. Oh, totally. I mean, who knows.
KURT: I mean, it wouldn't matter if he'd gone on Oprah again and cried in front of everybody - it's not gonna change anyone's opinion about it, you know?
KRIST: You know what's gonna happen? He's gonna fake his death, they're gonna fucking burn him and he's gonna have his ashes scattered over Euro Disney
DAVE: And they'll never drink Pepsi again
KURT LODER: And they're desperate, they'll go for it.
KURT: I just feel really sorry for him
KRIST: Every time, you know, [sings] "I'll be there, I'll be there, just call out my name and I'll be there" and who else goes on, Tito [Jackson]… and Tito comes out "I'll be there to comfort you"
PAT: Hey, Tito's the cool one. I think.
KURT LODER: He was only involved in the Mall of America thing. It's the only strange thing he did.
PAT: What's that?
KURT: Oh that's a good place. I like it.
KRIST: It's just… the press needs a story. Story, story.
DAVE: Was involved in the Camp Snoopy ordeal?
KURT LODER: Camp Snoopy? I don't know
DAVE: Camp Sniper
KRIST: Polly Klaas. Look at Polly Klaas - story. That was a story. It's a tragic story.
KURT LODER: Well, that's what journalism does - it zooms into a great big issue and take one thing out of it… the theory is that people can relate to the one thing.
KRIST: And I'm giving you a story too as a press person, I'm saying Polly Klaas, K-L-A-A-S
KURT LODER: Right
KRIST: And like "Polly wants a cracker", the song 'Polly', you know, nobody latched on that so I thought..
PAT: They'll latch on it as soon as we're playing in L.A.
KURT LODER: Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about this song ‘Where Did You Sleep Last Night’ that you do. Where did you first come upon this?
KURT: Um, off one of my Lead Belly records. Actually, [William S.] Burroughs, I was reading in an interview with him in a magazine one time and he said something like "These rock 'n roll kids of nowadays should throw away their electric guitars and listen to some real soul music. They should listen to Lead Belly" and that was quite a few years ago so that's how I was introduced to him.
KURT LODER: That version you did on MTV Unplugged was great. It was just phenomenal.
KURT: Thank you
KURT LODER: It's really cool
KURT: We don't play it that very often because it's pretty emotional.
KURT LODER: Yeah
KURT: So we usually just save it for special moments.
KURT LODER: Because I heard that song originally as ‘In the Pines’ and it was done by, like, Bill Monroe and Mike Seager, all these guys…
KRIST: Yeah, Seagers. Yeah, sure. They, like, in the early '50s, like, they totally did all the Lead Belly songs. The Seagers.
KURT: Yeah, all kinds of people ripped him off
KRIST: Yeah, they were the first ones
KURT: He wrote a lot of really great songs
KRIST: Creedence Clearwater
KURT LODER: Yeah
KURT: What was that one singing group that really ripped him off all the time? The Seegers?
KURT LODER: Ah, The Weavers
KRIST: The Weavers. Weavers, Weavers, yeah. Weavers not the Seegers.
KURT LODER: A really lame white group
KRIST: The Weavers, that's what I was talking about.
KURT LODER: Pete Seeger was in the Weavers, yeah.
PAT: The Seegers were in the Weavers?
KURT LODER: Well, Pete Seeger was in the Weavers and Mike Seeger was another Seeger who had… did other stuff that's…
KRIST: Seeger. Seeger. Weaver.
KURT LODER: It's much too complicated to get into. But it's a great tune. Are there any other songs like that that you might be doing sometime in the future? Like, these nuggets of American folklore?
KURT: Um, no. Not that I can think of right now.
KRIST: We did ‘Seasons In the Sun’
KURT: That's folk
KRIST: And that's American folklore
KURT LODER: Haha
KRIST: It is! "We had joy, we had fun, we had seasons…”
KURT: We should have played that… We should start playing that because we practiced it the other day.
KRIST: Yeah, we can figure it out again
KURT LODER: Didn't you say you wanted to get the story of the… who wants to get the story of the B-side again
DAVE: ‘Put the Bone In’
KURT: "Put the bone in"
KURT LODER: …like the narrative, sort of, thrust of it
DAVE: Well, ‘Put the Bone In’ is about a man's dog who was hit by a car and they're burying the dog and he's begging to put the bone in.
KURT LODER: With the dog
DAVE: With the dog. That's about it.
KURT LODER: Does it have a resolution of some sort? Does he get to put the bone in?
DAVE: It's just, you know, a funny little chorus
KURT LODER: Do you think it's a double entendre of some sort? Do you think they're saying one thing but it actually means something else?
DAVE: [playing dumb] Huh? What do you mean?
KURT LODER: Like, one of those.. "put the bone in"
PAT: There's nothing sexual about it
KURT: I don't think Terry Jacks was worried about…
KRIST: You're worse than the English, man, you're baiting us. You know?
DAVE: That's baiting!
KRIST: They're baiting us, man
KURT LODER: Fair play! You know?
KRIST: You know, it's like Tad was baited
KRIST: He was baited
KURT LODER: So how long will this tour go on? Are you going to be on the road for the rest of… for the next 2 years, or?
DAVE: For fucking ever
KURT: I don't know, it doesn't seem like we've even been on tour, really. Looking back on it, it's been the easiest, greatest tour I've ever been on.
KURT LODER: Really?
KURT: Oh yeah, it's so relaxed and great
KURT LODER: Wow
KURT: It's just, you know, the morale is great. Our health is good. It's just… and playing these larger places is just um it's a lot easier for us because we can actually breathe instead of, you know... We've been going on tour for, like, 5 years playing sweaty little clubs and sometimes choosing to play them at the wrong time of the year, like, in Texas in July, you know. Yeah.
KRIST: Everybody wants to just, like, have a good time and really go for it, totally rocking out and just like writhing crazy and, like, anybody who doesn't want to - you just kind of, like, shift back on the perimeter and just kind of rock out and watch. It's like really satisfying. Really good.
KURT: These are really good sized places that we're playing. They average 3 - 5,000.
KURT LODER: So you're not going to, like, super stadiums or anything. Do you think that will happen in the summer?
KURT: No, we couldn't actually. No.
KRIST: We did. We went into this, um, in like the Saint Paul arena, it was 5,500 and I drove back into Minneapolis and I saw this thing and it was like so big the top of it was, like, inflated. So it was, like, the total inflation dome big thing. That's where the Rolling Stones play.
KURT: We could never do that
KURT LODER: There will be pressure to do that once summer comes around, right? Won't they be saying hey stadiums and outdoor concerts
KURT: Well we're thinking of maybe doing Lollapalooza, if they will give us 100% of the back end. No.
KRIST: Yeah, we're not that cool. We're not that cool. We'd go play… Oh yeah, after this tour we're gonna go play stadiums and sit there “this is a song about hope”
KURT LODER: Well, I'm sure you could, I mean…
DAVE: “Does anybody remember laughter?”
PAT: Ooh. Ooh.
MICHAEL ALEX: We need to change tape.
KURT LODER: Okay
KRIST: “My pussy is like a Brillo pad” Okay, I'm sorry. You guys wanted a Elsa Klensch. Sorry. You guys made me and I was crying.
DAVE: Baiting. Baiting.
KURT LODER: So what's this thing in Seattle, this sort of homecoming thing/concert that you're playing with Pearl Jam?
KRIST: Well, there's gonna be a parade with a convertible Cadillac and we'll be on the top going [waving] just like waving. That's homecoming Seattle.
KURT LODER: Isn't this gonna be strange? Don't you have to pretend it's New Years Eve?
KURT: Yes, we do
DAVE: But I hear they've shipped in 1,000 people that look good on camera. Do you know that? It's like the entire cast of The Grind.
KRIST: If the money's right, I'll do anything, man
KURT LODER: That's our crowd
DAVE: Oh okay
KURT LODER: We just have our crowd and we just ship them all over the country
KRIST: If the money's right, I'll do anything
KURT LODER: Well, it's MTV I'm the money's not right. This can't be why you're doing it, so…
PAT: There's no money. It's MTV.
KRIST: It's like… equals promotion, like…
DAVE: We get a free trip home
KRIST: I was bad at algebra. I'm sorry.
KURT LODER: What is this, like, I mean, are they gonna drop balloons and kind of… it just sounds…
KURT: I don't know what's going on
KURT LODER: Sounds strange. I don't know.
KRIST: We're gonna kill ourselves on stage like G.G. Allin
PAT: Oh, what a wuss
KURT LODER: I miss G.G. Well, sort of
DAVE: “What a wuss” haha
KURT LODER: That was a very touching movie. The movie of G.G.'s life
PAT: “I’m scared to see my mom, I'm gonna have to kill myself”
KRIST: That guy was in Flipside, he was like totally he was like… like this. And he had this, like, leather coat and he had this jock strap that said “eat me”. He was wearing this jock strap “eat me” and he was totally like dead. Oh I’m so impressed, you're so punk.
DAVE: Have you heard the cover of his new record? It's just him in a casket and the band standing around the casket like [makes face]. I swear to god.
KURT: “G.G. still sings”
KURT LODER: Did you see G.G. live?
KURT: No, “I's was too afraid”
KURT LODER: It was an amazing experience
KURT: Nah, I could have went one time I knew he was playing but I just didn't get around to it.
KURT LODER: Yeah, you would have just had handfuls of shit thrown at you, I suppose, but still…
KURT: Yeah. It would have been something neat
DAVE: We being shit lovers ourselves
KURT LODER: As he was
KURT: Scat, scat, scat
PAT: I was way scared. I was definitely scared. I played at some club a few years back and I'm about to sit on this couch with this big ol’ fuckin’ stain on it and they go… we were just talking, blah blah blah…
KURT: Oh yeah, I was at that same club
PAT: Were you? In San Francisco?
KRIST: That's G.G.'s club
KURT: Kennel Club, and that's G.G.'s stain
PAT: And they go, just out of a normal conversation they go like this “Oh don't sit there that's G.G.'s shit” I'm like “Oooh shit!”
KRIST: It's in San Francisco, Kennel Club
KURT: Stain of G.G.
KRIST: And this is like 1993 or '94 - body fluids are not cool anymore. No kinds of body fluid.
KURT LODER: So maybe you could tell our audience about Frances Farmer because I think there are a lot of people out there that don't know the Frances Farmer story and you've sort of made a point of bringing her up.
KURT: They should buy the book ‘Shadowland’. It was written by… I think he was a P.I. reporter.
KURT LODER: Or see the movie, I suppose
PAT: For you lazy people…
KRIST: Remember being on Bainbridge Island when Chad was there he showed us that whole mental institution, it was really wild.
DAVE: Is it closed down?
KRIST: Oh, totally because it's like a repressive old '40s/50 mental institution where Frances Farmer was
KURT LODER: They bring you in with a cold and give you a lobotomy or something
KRIST: Yeah. Yeah, like raped everyday and then given a lobotomy. That's one… if you saw… um… god, that Jack Nicholson movie.
KRIST: He had
KURT LODER: ‘One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest’?
KRIST: No, no no no…
PAT: That was it. They had an episode…
KRIST: He was a concert pianist and he dumped that girl [Movie: ‘Five Easy Pieces’ - 1970]. Ah shit, you guys suck then. You guys don't know. No, no.
PAT: Blow in my eye
KRIST: You'll watch that movie and go “Oh, that's what he was talking about.” Can I get a drag off that?
KURT LODER: Okay, we're good? I think we're good, I think we got it. I know you guys are a bit tired.
DAVE: I was just getting comfy
MICHAEL ALEX: Is there stuff you want to talk about that we haven't been smart enough to ask?
KURT LODER: What are you listening to? What have you seen? What have you read?
DAVE: Well, the tour's going great.
KRIST: Yeah, the tour's going great.
KURT LODER: Why's it going so great?
KURT: We've read the tour itinerary.
DAVE: Yeah. [laughs]
KURT: No, I dunno, I think we've done a really good job of weeding out [chuckles] the audiences. I've been really surprised and happy to see the types of people that have come to our shows. I know that sounds elitist, but, I mean, they're really- I was surprised to see that there are that many kids in every city that are just good, nice, kids, you know?! We were so afraid, you know, we were really concerned - which translated into bitching and whining for a couple of years - but we were so afraid of having people come to our shows to cause trouble, you know? Getting into fist-fights. I haven't seen one fist-fight at our shows and that's in a smaller type of arena atmosphere, you know, and it's great. It's really nice and comforting to know that that's our audience, you know? And we're really proud of that fact, I think.
KURT LODER: What do you suppose it is that draws them to you?
KURT: I don't know… I don't know.
KRIST: Being fans and…
KURT: Just liking the music. Just ignoring all the crap, all the rumors and stuff and just being real honest music fans, you know?
PAT: Yeah, this city has really great music fans, it was different.
KRIST: It's great to go every show and see the same types of kids at every show. We had no idea there were that many kids like that, you know? We were afraid that we were gonna get Judas Priest fans, you know?
KURT LODER: [laughs]
KRIST: And we've played some bigger auditoriums, but we've never sold them out, like 8,000 but we always did like 7,000 or something.
KURT: So we couldn't play arenas if we wanted to, which is great!
KRIST: We're not, yeah… We're not that hot, but the people who like us are cool.
KURT: But the people who like us really like us.
KURT LODER: Yeah. Off-camera, last time, I heard somebody say they were enjoying the tour so much. Everybody's usually bitching and moaning about it...
KURT: We usually do, but it's just so good compared to all our other…
PAT: And stay till the end of the show, too, which is new for me, I'm used to…
KURT LODER: [laughs]
PAT: I'm serious! It's really weird! They stay till the end! It's, like, God, they usually walk out…
KURT LODER: They stay till the end?! Well, that's sweet, that's good… So, will this go on? Will you go to Europe? Will you do Japan? Will you do the South American thing?
DAVE: In Europe in February...
KRIST: Yeah, we're going to Europe in February, March…
KURT: Maybe not South America.
KURT LODER: South America is dangerous.
KRIST: Japan… Australia… and then we might do America, we’ll see.
KURT LODER: Well, you're all soon gonna be married, are you gonna take the wives along?
KRIST: This is the guy… No, I've been married for, I'm goin’ on four years.
KURT LODER: I know, he's getting married soon, though.
DAVE: She's sick of rock.
KURT LODER: [laughs]
DAVE: You know, everyone's talkin’ about how they've lost their appetite for fried food…
KURT LODER: [laughs]
DAVE: My fiancée's like, “I've lost my appetite for rock!”
KURT LODER: [laughs] Uh-oh!
DAVE: Yeah, but…
KRIST: “My fiancée…”
KURT LODER: So you go home and she's playing, like, classical or something?
DAVE: No, it's just weird because when you take someone…
KURT: Windham Hill.
KURT LODER: Will Ackerman records.
KRIST: Gyuto monks! [imitates the Gyuto monks' harmonic chanting]
KURT: I play that all the time! [laughs]
DAVE: The first time I heard that I thought it was Calvin Johnson.
KURT: [imitates harmonic chanting]
DAVE: No, but they do more like [imitates harmonic chanting]
KRIST: [imitates the sound of a gong]
KURT: I've missed them three times!
KURT LODER: I saw them with Richard Gere.
DAVE: With Richard Gere?!
KURT LODER: With Richard Gere.
KRIST: You know what, have a religious experience or be a voyeur!
KURT LODER: And Kitaro, all on one bill.
KRIST: Have a religious experience or be a voyeur! You can be into it and just go “whoaaaa,” or be like “Oh, the Gyoto Monks” and look and have, like... “whooooa, BOOM!” They have the boom, which is like, “boom” and then the silence afterwards…
PAT: I don't know what we're talking about.
KURT LODER: No idea. Maybe you're referring to, I mean, the fact that they can get two voices out of their vocals? It's impressive.
KURT LODER: Three?
KURT LODER: Three. Better yet.
MICHAEL ALEX: I wanted to say something about your light show. Your lights are really… not arbitrary. It seems really tight and together and homogenized…
KRIST: Yeah, Susanne.
KURT: Susanne Sasic, she's fantastic.
DAVE: She was on the cover of “True Detective” one time, did you know that?
KURT LODER: What?! [laughs]
KURT: Really? Wow.
DAVE: I swear to God.
KRIST: You know, Susanne, she's Serbian and I'm Croatian.
KURT LODER: And yet you get along. I think there's hope.
KRIST: Yeah, totally.
DAVE: Well, imagine that.
MICHAEL ALEX: Did you hire her [inaudible]?
KRIST: No, we saw what she did with Sonic Youth…
KURT: Yeah, she'd been working for Sonic Youth. We just do everything that Sonic Youth does.
KURT LODER: [laughs]
MICHAEL ALEX: Does that work? Is it going to plan?
KURT: Yeah… You know, I haven't been able to see…
DAVE: 10 million fans can't be wrong!
KURT: I haven't been able to see our light show very often, you know? My back's away from it.
PAT: Yeah, what light show?!
KRIST: I saw it on video-tape and it was good. Good, good, good.
MICHAEL ALEX: It's cool! It's bright, it's pretty, the gobo goes out and comes back.
KURT: She's like a musician, she plays along with us.
KRIST: And I saw her doin' [inaudible] live shows and she's up there, like, watching the band…
PAT: And she rocks, too! She's like [rocks out]
KRIST: She rocks.
KURT LODER: [laughs]
PAT: Sometimes when I'm in a bad mood, I'll just watch her and she's all… [rocks out] It's true! Have you ever watched her when we're playing?
DAVE: How can you see her?!
PAT: You can see her.
KURT: I can see her.
PAT: Yeah and she rocks.
PAT: She rocks out.
DAVE: I used to think that the strobe lights would put me into these weird, like, epeleptic sorta… you know?
PAT: [laughs] I know, I was scared of that too.
KURT: I have to just stand there and just hope I'm [inaudible] the right notes!
DAVE: You can't move!
DAVE: Steve Albini had this idea when we were playing, he was like- he hates click tracks and metronomes because he thinks they're too fascist and restricting, so he had this great idea that he’d put a strobe light in front of me and I could play along with the strobe light. And I'm just sitting there trying to play… it was awful, man!
KURT LODER: [laughs] Talk about your fascist stuff.
KRIST: He was digging his heels.
DAVE: “Strobe light!”
KURT LODER: So have you guys got the rhythm of the road down now? I mean, you're seasoned guys, you don't go out and party all night. You party a little bit…
KURT: Oh, no, that's what we learned…
DAVE: Not to do.
KURT: Yeah. I mean, our backstage area is so casual, it's actually really boring, but that's the way it should be…
KRIST: It's child-friendly…
KURT: It's child-friendly, yeah.
KRIST: Because my sister-in-law goes, “Well, we've gotta find a babysitter for Lindsey,” who's like my niece, I'm like, “Oh, bring her along, man!” And Frances is there…
KURT: Frances has been on the tour the whole time.
DAVE: She's been the star of the show.
KRIST: Yeah, it's like totally mellow.
KURT: Yeah, we don't allow any label reps or, you know, radio people back at all.
KURT: That's interesting.
KURT: It's just us. We have dinner. Say grace, eat dinner and leave.
KURT LODER: It seems very organized. I guess it wasn't always that way, right?
KURT: Not really.
KRIST: We used to go- we had our own van, we'd drive around, you know… three guys in a van, wherever the show was, we'd pull up…
KURT LODER: Where's the van today?
KRIST: My brother has it!
KURT: It's still running, huh? Wow.
KRIST: It fucking runs like a clock! It never broke down on us, too! All these other bands, we'd always hear about their tragic stories about breaking down, “the van broke down”… and our van always went!
KURT: ‘Cause you were such a Nazi about changing the oil!
DAVE: “Son of a bitch!”
KURT: In the middle of July he wouldn't let us put on the air conditioner because it consumes gas- wastes gas!
KURT LODER: [laughs]
KRIST: Or drive above 70 miles per hour.
DAVE: “Hey, do wanna turn off the wipers?!”
KURT LODER: [laughs] Gee, the old days…
PAT: So that was your van.
KURT: See, Krist was always the papa in charge, according to the [inaudible].
KRIST: You know what, I was always the biggest guy and I had about $800 or $900 in my wallet, or right here, my front pocket. If anybody wanted any money, “You want any money?” “Oh, I gotta buy some records.” I was like, “Ah, yeah, sure.” I fuckin’ handed it off.
DAVE: What about craft night? Arts & crafts nights?
KRIST: We did a collage and all that shit.
KURT LODER: Arts & crafts nights?
KRIST: Nah. We were just kinda creative. We had, like, all these collages and shit.
KRIST: [whispers| It was fuckin' bullshit. Bull-shit.
DAVE: Do you have a cigarette, Krist? Pat, do you have a cigarette?
MICHAEL ALEX: Pat, do you have shoes?
PAT: No, I lost my shoes.
KURT: He has those aqua things.
DAVE: He wears aqua socks.
PAT: I've lost two pairs of shoes in the past week, I don't have any shoes left, all I have are my fuckin' aqua socks.
KURT LODER: Where’d you get that hat?
KRIST: I bought it in a second-hand store in, umm, Fort Lauderdale… and I bought a tie that looked like a spiderweb… and I bought a black shirt. I like this hat!
KURT LODER: So do I, I was just wondering where you got it. You don't see them often.
KRIST: It's a good hat. I was up in Florida and…
PAT: It's a good hat?!
KURT LODER: [laughs]
KURT LODER: What is bad? [laughs]
KRIST: Right-wingers. I go… you know what?
PAT: [inaudible] in Florida.
KRIST: Okay, check this out. Yeah, we were! Because the guy goes… Somebody said there was a bullet with each one of our heads on it.
KURT LODER: [laughs]
KRIST: Yeah! It was probably because of that “Heart-Shaped Box” video, or whatever.
KURT LODER: Because of the “Heart-Shaped Box” video somebody's going to shoot you?!
KURT: We had some assassination threats on a few shows.
KURT LODER: Wow. Let's not mention that.
KRIST: So I go, I'm going to go to a store. I'm going to go to the store. This is really funny because… were you with me that day?
PAT: Yeah, when we went to the pawn shops.
KRIST: We went to the pawn shop, and I go- I saw these 45s and go, “I'm going to buy that one right there.” “There's a three-day period in Florida.” “Oh, forget it!” So I swallowed it. I went to New Orleans, I'm walking around… And you know, those great streets in New Orleans, all the balconies and shit? I see Jim Brady, his wife!
KURT LODER: [laughs]
KRIST: I see Jim fuckin' Brady! I swear to God! He was there! Jim fuckin' Brady! And he was like, in his wheelchair, he had his bald head, his scar and all that shit, and I wanna go, “Congratulations, Mr Brady, on your crime bill.” But all these mainstream…
KURT: I couldn't protect myself today because [inaudible]
PAT: On the other hand he wants to buy a fucking gun, yeah! “Jim Brady, fuck you!”
DAVE: You're pissed 'cause it's gonna take you three days.
KRIST: You've got to see my brother Robert and I…
KURT: [inaudible] to die in three days.
KRIST: My brother and me, we got a fucking Chinese rifle and a 45…
KURT LODER: The best kind!
KRIST: And we can hit anything past the camera.
KURT: They're really accurate.
KRIST: We're a dead shot!
KURT LODER: What are you going to do with this expertise, do you think?
KRIST: Oh, shit…
DAVE: Shoot cans.
PAT: Hey, we were on the grassy knoll last week. Let's talk fucking serious business here…
KURT: No way that guy could have shot him from that place.
KURT LODER: Well, this book that just came out, “Case Closed,” makes a really, really good argument for that.
PAT: Fuck “Case Closed!” We were on the grassy knoll, we looked up at the book suppository…
KURT: There's no way.
DAVE: Case Closed!
PAT: And we said there's no way that he could have made that shot. There's no way! Even if he had one of those laser guns.
KURT: As we were standing by the little fence, the picket fence, now that was an easy shot.
KURT LODER: Right, but according to this book, the distance from the Book Depository to Kennedy is shorter than the distance he had to fire in the Marines.
PAT: Whatever! There was no way. Have you been there?
KURT LODER: Yeah.
PAT: Didn't you think, “No way”?
KURT LODER: At the time, it was a long time ago, yeah. But that book is really persuasive.
PAT: It's a book.
KRIST (at the same time as Kurt Loder and Pat are talking): You should have saw, Robert and I had a fucking target thing, it was so far, we were so far. I had my 45, he had that Chinese rifle, we like switch 'em up and we were like picking 'em off, man. It was far, far away.
KURT LODER: We just had a guy in New-York the other day, he got on a railroad car and just started blasting away, killed people. Terrible.
KRIST: That's what I say!
PAT: Long Island! Let's get it straight. He purposely didn't go to New-York.
KURT: You shouldn't kill people at random. Kill people that deserve it!
KURT LODER: Precisely. They should think about these things. It shouldn't be a spontaneous occurrence.
PAT: Pearl Jam concerts…
DAVE: Oh! It comes out.
KURT LODER: [laughs] You don't mean that, I'm sure.
PAT: I didn't… Did I say that?
KURT: I said it, I'm a mime!
KURT LODER: [laughs]
DAVE: I've got my hand behind his back.
KURT LODER: You guys have patched that all up. I think all Seattle bands love each other, don't they? I mean…
KURT: Always have.
KRIST: Did you hear about the Matt Lukin story?
KURT: Haha! Yeah!
DAVE: Oh! [laughs]
KRIST: This is a great one.
PAT: I haven't heard it, let me hear it!
KURT: Mudhoney, they're on tour with Pearl Jam…
KRIST: Mudhoney's on tour with Pearl Jam, Pearl Jam's doin', [sings] “Jeremy's spoken…” and Matt Lukin walks onstage with a gorilla mask and goes, “Oh-oh-oh” and everybody's goin', “What the fuck is this?!”
KURT: “You've ruined the moment!”
KURT LODER: [laughs]
KRIST: And Matt Lukin was my best man at my wedding. No shit. That's why I go fuckin' mad with my man.
KURT: The alcohol was a-flowin' that day.
KRIST: Shit, you were there too.
PAT: Just that day, though.
DAVE: Must've been a friday.
KURT: I was throwing your wedding cake out the window.
KRIST: I know. We had this big liquor…
KURT: Yugoslavian fig liquor.
KRIST: Rakia, rakia, Croatian slivovitz goin'.
KURT LODER: Oh, yeah.
PAT: Fig liquor? Is that a racist remark or what?
KURT LODER: That stuff's dangerous.
PAT: [laughs] That sounds, like, totally racist, “Yeah, we had this fig liquor.”
DAVE: Phil Collins…
KRIST: Fuck… fuck liquor.
KURT LODER: So have you been back to Croatia since your last visit? Are you in touch with things over there?
KRIST: Oh, I'm…
KURT LODER: With your relatives, I should say.
KRIST: Yeah, I have relatives there. They're like, “Oh, we're okay. Things are kinda screwy, we don't have any water or electricity, but don't you worry, Krist, we're gonna be okay!” And all that shit. But I'm gonna be there… when's our break in our tour?
DAVE: In the middle of March, 10 days or something.
KRIST: In March, I'm gonna drive down there.
KURT: I'm not goin'.
DAVE: I'm gonna go.
KRIST: You're gonna go?
KRIST: Good! 'Cause I asked you. I asked, you wouldn't go.
KURT: I can't, Krist. I'm too afraid.
KRIST: It's alright, man. I'm the most prominent Croatian, so I can cruise through there. I'm telling you that much, man.
KURT LODER: You're like magic there, they wouldn't fire at you.
KRIST: Yeah, yeah. Fuck, yeah, man.
KURT: Krist arrives in a glass cubicle.
KURT LODER: [laughs]
DAVE: Another parade.
KRIST: In a way, it's true, it's true.
PAT: I wanna go, but I don't wanna die.
KURT LODER: So when you come to Croatia it's like a homecoming, right?
KURT: It's like a parade.
KRIST: No, there's like avenues open.
KURT LODER: [laughs] Is that a big thing, when the avenues open in Croatia?
KRIST: I dunno. I'm writing for this magazine called “Arkzin,” or something like that, it's like the leading opposition newspaper. I'm writing for it, the most smartass shit, like total… Boris Yeltsin, the whole cold turkey, Capitalism, I totally dash it all!
KURT LODER: So you're writing inflammatory political tracts and you're going to visit?
KRIST: Totally! Oh, totally, because that's all it is! That's all their journalism is: yellow journalism.
KURT LODER: True.
KRIST: It's yellow journalism, rancid with pro-government propaganda.
KURT LODER: So you're not afraid of being executed or something when you go back? I mean, I would be. I would be.
KURT: Another bullet with your name on it.
DAVE: That's why I'm going.
KRIST: I'm a Novoselic. I'm a Novoselic.
PAT: “I ain't afraid of no Serbs,” right?
KRIST: Yeah, I dunno what's goin' on there, it's hard to explain it.
KURT LODER: I think we should just drink more. That would be great.
DAVE: Okay, cheers!
MICHAEL ALEX: Hey Kurt, are you getting custom guitars from Fender? [inaudible]
KURT: Yeah, I've designed a guitar. [laughs]
KURT LODER: What are the special features of it?
KURT: Well, I took a Polaroid, I took…
DAVE: It's really hard to play.
KURT LODER: [laughs]
KURT: I took a Polaroid picture of a Mustang and a Polaroid picture of a Jaguar and then I cut them in half and glued them together and told them to build that; it's called the “Jag-Stang”
PAT: It looks real cool.
DAVE: It does look cool.
KURT: I don't know if it's gonna be available.
KURT LODER: Well, as long as you have one. I think that's the point of those things, right? To get your guitar.
KURT LODER: Cool.
KURT: I still don't really like it as much as the Mustangs, though. I need to do… they have to have something else done…
PAT: But it looks cool.
KURT: “It looks good.”
DAVE: Lars Ulrich, he started- he got Tama to make his drums…
KURT LODER: How old is the one you play now onstage?
KURT: Oh, it's fairly new. Yeah, they reissued Japanese Mustangs, I play those mostly.
KURT LODER: So you're not like a big guitar collector?
KURT: No, they're too expensive. I have a couple of old Mustangs.
MICHAEL ALEX: What are the ones you smash up?
KURT: Whatever I have in my hand. I've smashed a lot of vintage guitars before, I don't do it as much anymore.
KURT LODER: Whoops… Good, alright.
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