Live Nirvana | Interview Archive | 1992 | June 30, 1992

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Interviewer(s): Lars Aldman
Interviewee(s): Kurt Cobain; Krist Novoselic; Dave Grohl

Medium	Publisher	Date of Issue	Title	Transcript
Video	SVT	09/09/1992	Intensiven	Yes
Video	TMF	04/05/2000	TMF Exit Special	Yes

Novoselic: We get a lot of attention, you know what I mean? Like, Teen Spirit was like played into the ground! It kinda made me feel a little self-conscious, y'know? Ummm… what do you guys think of hysteria?

Novoselic: I wish we would have thrown a bomb at the music business and they would have all been, at least, dismembered… but, I dunno, it was more like a fire-cracker, a lady finger… [laughs]

Cobain: Yeah…

Novoselic: Pop!

Novoselic: What we're doing is nothing new, it's just that our band happened to penetrate into the mainstream…

Cobain: Yeah, so mainstream kids now are realising the fact that they can start bands… I think that's very good, it's very nice and flattering that we helped aid something like that, but ummm, I dunno… that ideal has always been around in the underground.

Aldman: Is it fun to be famous?

Novoselic: Not if you're walking down the street…

Grohl: Not when people recognise you and you can't have a moment… people are waiting in the lobby of your hotel and constantly asking you for your signature, which still baffles me, I don't understand that autograph concept at all.

Novoselic: It can be a burden, y'know? Wanting to be famous… it's kinda vain, really, if you think about it… "Everybody, look at me!" Y'know? it's like, ahhhh… it'll pass someday!

Cobain: Most people who are really famous end up staying in their hotel rooms all the time… total recluses, they don't do anything… that sucks!

Aldman: There's all sorts of rumors about how your next album will sound - some people say it's gonna be really wild, raw and confusing, some say it's gonna be really quiet, acoustic and pretty…

Cobain: Oh, both, a mixture of both. It won't be as clean as the last album, that's for sure!

Novoselic: That's a good album cover or a name… Now, if our record's that name you're gonna go, "Shit!" You're gonna go, "Those guys, man! 'Raw, Wild And Confusing'" We'll be on the cover going… No, one of us is gonna look raw and is gonna be naked, one of us is gonna look wild in a loincloth like some wild man, and one of us is gonna look really confused… "Raw, Wild And Confusing"

Aldman: [laughs]

Cobain: I have a feeling with the next record we're gonna lose a lot of our audience…

Aldman: But what you have done is no less, I think, than throwing a bomb into the whole music business… don't you think?

Novoselic: You think so? I wish we would have thrown a bomb at the music business and they would have all been, at least, dismembered… but, I dunno, it was more like a fire-cracker, a lady finger… [laughs]

Cobain: Yeah…

Novoselic: Pop! That's about it, I mean…

Cobain: A small snap of the fingers.

Novoselic: We just kinda came into this thing with really high ideals, but now it seems like a lot of garbage is proliferating, so we've got more of a jaded perspective on things!

Novoselic: What we're doing is nothing new, it's just that our band happened to penetrate into the mainstream…

Cobain: To me it seems kinda… it seems really sad that so many people have a hard time finding small record shops or underground or independent type music, when in every city there's at least 2 or 3 of those kinds of shops. It doesn't seem to me to be that hard of a thing to find, y'know? But some people are so… I dunno, narrow-minded or just unaware, to where they need something like… someone as accessible as us to be thrown in their faces to realise that there are small record shops and independent labels and people doing things on their own.

Aldman: Maybe that's the most important thing, then? With the whole Nirvana thing, as it's called, that you actually give people the chance to find other bands, finding those record shops and stuff…

Novoselic: Well, yeah, it's just… like in interviews, naming names of bands so maybe someone watching goes, "Oh, I never heard of that band, maybe I'll go check them out."

Aldman: Yeah, like bringing Teenage Fanclub on tour with you now.

Novoselic: Exactly, yeah. We've been on tour with, like, Shonen Knife...

Cobain: It's as simple as this: go to your telephone directory, look into the pages where it says record shops, call up all the record shops and ask, "Do you sell independent music? Do you sell independent records?" And then find the address if they say "Yes." Go to the shop, find fanzines… there are all kinds of little distribution… I mean, there are distributions of little fanzines and magazines that are home-made by kids who are fans, which is why they're called fanzines, and then they can find out about all this kind of music. It's really simple! They really shouldn't need bands like us to tell them about things like that!

Cobain: I have a feeling with the next record we're gonna lose a lot of our audience…

Aldman: The amount of touring and gigs you have done now, I suppose have been more than anything you could ever have anticipated, like, two years ago…

Novoselic: Actually, we've scaled our touring back!

Grohl: It's not the amount of touring, it's just the scale of the shows that we're playing. I mean, we're playing everything on such a grand scale… it's something that we've never done before, especially 5 festivals in a row! I mean, we've done Reading Festival before, but… it just gets pretty insane after a while.

Cobain: Do you guys like it?

Grohl: I don't think I really like it that much…

Novoselic: I don't mind it, I don't mind it…

Cobain: I don't like it.

Grohl: I kinda enjoy playing outside, but… it's about as un-intimate…

Cobain: I definitely don't want to do this ever again! And if we do, I'd only like to do maybe a couple of outdoor festivals, y'know? I don't wanna do a whole bunch in a row! It's just so impersonal and…

Novoselic: Well, if it's not outdoors it's indoor giant…

Cobain: I dunno, I just kinda like that better.

Aldman: I can see an attitude with new bands, like, the last 3 or 4 years…

Novoselic: Here's a band like Extreme, some total shlock rock band, right?! And we played with them at some festival, I don't know why, but… they are in an alternate reality to us, they are in the rock 'n' roll reality… it's just a different reality!

Cobain: They surround themselves with these professional dickhead commercial rock 'n' roll guys who are like… when they show up at an airport, their manager runs in ahead of them and tells the people who are greeting them, "No video! Want a path straight to the van! Here's what we need: we want a path straight to the van, we don't want any pictures taken!" Y'know, it's like, so what?! [laughs]

Novoselic: And I'm not even sure if they're aware that things can actually operate on a different level, y'know?

Grohl: I don't think they're aware of how much they suck!!!

Novoselic: Yeah, yeah, that's true…

Aldman: But that's not the type of band that I was talking about…

Novoselic: No, no, you said the new bands have integrity! It wasn't always like that, 'cause in the past there was dinosaur rock, Zeppelin, limousines, caviar, and cocaine…

Aldman: And the kids who were starting bands were kind of blinded by that in a way, so they fell for the traps, I don't think they do that any more…

Novoselic: No, because it's just so ridiculous, if you think about it… I think even the people who participated in that, they're all in their 50s now, they look back at all the excess of the '70s and it was just gross! I think they probably even shudder when they think about it! I just couldn't see myself doing anything like that! It's not realistic, you know?

Cobain: Oh, it's a load of shit! I think there are at least 10 to 15 other bands who are just as good, if not better, than us and they deserve just as much attention as we do, if they choose to take that attention, if they want it, y'know? But, ummm, I think the reason that we've become so popular is because we're on a major label and we were exposed; we had the tools and the access to the mainstream.

Aldman: From the mid-'80s there were loads of really really good bands, like Sonic Youth…

Cobain: Better bands!

Aldman: … Butthole Surfers, The Pixies, and all of these guys!

Novoselic: There's always been really good substantial stuff underneath the surface, ever since the '60s, y'know? It's just for some reason, I don't know if it was some conspiracy, or it might be just that labels invest money in some crap and they just want their money back, so they shove it down the throats of the mainstream… or they've read some demographic survey that says that, "People want more disco!" or whatever! So they give more disco, and then people are getting more disco, so they say in a survey that they want more disco… it's just a vicious circle.

Cobain: It was the same thing with the hippies! It's like, the hippies started out in San Francisco with a small group of people… and by 1967, the people who started the hippy movement denounced the hippy movement… before it became commercialised, because… And I feel the same way with underground music, once it gets commercialised it really doesn't matter, because… By the time that all the hippies…

Novoselic: It's not underground anymore, that's for sure!

Cobain: Yeah… by the time the hippy movement was so huge and the mainstream was aware of it, the fringe people - the people from the suburbs who weren't aware of the hippy movement at the beginning - finally turned into hippies, but they were fake hippies… you know what I mean? They weren't really hippies, they were just growing their hair long and smoking pot every once in a while and talking about peace and love, but they really didn't understand it… and that's what's happening with the supposedly "alternative" underground music scene right now… and it happened in the early '80s with new wave, y'know? It's just a cycle…

Aldman: It's inevitable isn't it?

Cobain: Oh, sure! But I don't know… I may sound really negative about it, but I sincerely think that the generation underneath our generation - the kids who are around like 15, or even 9 to 12 to 20 years old - are a bit more aware and a bit more intelligent! I think that education is a little bit better right now and the reason that kids are more educated is because they choose to be more educated. I don't know why that is, I can't explain it, but I just feel like kids right now in their teenage years are a lot more aware of things and they're a bit more passionate about things, they're not as cynical as we were when we were teenagers.

Aldman: Everybody's trying to sign the next Nirvana, it's become sort of a ghost in the record industry, "Who will find the next Nirvana?"

Cobain: Well, the same thing happened in the punk movement when it happened in the late '70s. It's like, major record labels were signing punk bands shortly after most punk bands' first gigs, y'know? A punk band would start, play their first gig, and they'd be signed to a major label right away, y'know? Just because it's a trend right now. And it just proves that there are a lot of old school dinosaurs in the record industry still who need to be weeded out! And one positive thing about that is that there are a lot of people our age - in their mid-20s to 30s - who have pretty much the same ideals as we do, who are starting to infiltrate the major label record companies, y'know? They're starting to get jobs there, they're getting jobs at MTV, they're getting jobs at all those companies and labels… So, eventually the old people will die!

Aldman: Maybe this is the white suburban kids who want to have their thing that they can relate to, just as much as the black kids could to hip-hop and black music?

Novoselic: I dunno, it just seems like, especially in popular culture, things are so hazy between the generations… like rock 'n' roll, you have your allotted rock band for your generation… like if you're between 40 and 50 years old, you have Mark Knopfler and Genesis and Elton John… and the young kids have us and Sonic Youth or whatever…

Cobain: There are a lot of kids, like in high school, who are listening to the same music as their parents, y'know? It's really gross! It's not as bad as it was just a few years ago. I remember the same kids in high school listening to Bruce Springsteen and so were their parents, like there's no generation gap at all! And I think there's just starting to become a generation gap again.

Novoselic: A lot of that depends on your circumstances too, how much information you get where you live… in the city you're more inclined to be into the hip stuff… if you're out in the rural places, forget it!

Aldman: But I hope you agree with me when I say that the future looks bright for good music, for good rock…

Novoselic: Yeah… [laughs]

Cobain: I think the future looks good for good bands with integrity to be exposed… to at least have the opportunity to be exposed… but I've always felt that, like, every 10 years there's always a handful of really really good bands, y'know? There always has been… If I would have grown up in the '60s - the late '60s - I would have only like a handful of bands. I think most of it's bullshit, y'know? Like Strawberry Alarm Clock, Vanilla Fudge, and all that stuff - they're just crap, y'know?! But most of that stuff is looked upon now as being really cool, y'know? But I only would have liked Blue Cheer and The Stooges… and Black Sabbath… I can only think of like maybe 5 bands I would have liked if I would have grown up in those days… and that's the same way it is now, I can only think of about 10 bands I really really like.

Novoselic: There's just so much opportunity for exploitation. I mean, you were saying thank you for bringing rock music back… and a few years ago it was rap music… there was a point when rap music was underground and it just took about 10 or 12 years for it to become mainstream… and now there's Vanilla Ice and New Kids On The Block… it's just total exploitation!

Cobain: I try to walk around in every town and go to record stores and stuff, and I really don't get hassled all that much, but it's enough to make me really think about, "Well, should I go into this record store?" And I shouldn't have to think about stuff like that, but I guess that's fame, y'know? Until people's attitudes change about fame and guitar solos and all that kind of stuff, I'll just have to put up with it.

Grohl: It's just stupid, I mean… what is "famous"?

Novoselic: It can be a burden, y'know? Wanting to be famous, it's kinda vain, really, if you think about it… "Everybody, look at me!" Y'know? it's like, ahhhh… it'll pass someday!

Cobain: Most people who are really famous end up staying in their hotel rooms all the time… total recluses, they don't do anything… that sucks!

Aldman: It's a scary perspective, isn't it?

Cobain: I don't wanna turn into that kind of a person, but I can understand why Prince is such a freak, y'know?! Because people paw him all the time.

Aldman: Lots of people think that you're really wild people, taking shit-loads of drugs everyday, wrecking hotel rooms and stuff… I suppose you've met that kind of attitude?

Grohl: Well, I think a lot of people have basic misconceptions… just, whatever… the hotel trashin', drug doin'…

Novoselic: It's just a cliche!

Grohl: Yeah, it's just stupid. I mean, "Hey, we're a rock band, we're supposed to do drugs," y'know?

Cobain: It's all Everett True's fault! It's all Everett True's fault! Do you know who he is? He's the biggest rockstar journalist there is in the whole world right now! Yeah, it's all his fault, he lies about us all the time! He's a dick! I hate his guts! No… I'm just kidding!!

Aldman: That's another chapter, "The Rock Press" [laughs]

Novoselic: He's in a headlock over there…

Aldman: [laughs] Is he here?!

Novoselic: Yeah, he's here.

Cobain: No, he's a good friend of ours! He's fine!

Aldman: But I've heard…

Cobain: If you don't have a story you may as well lie about it, right?!

Aldman: That's what I heard, that you lie to journalists constantly…

Grohl: They lie and us, why can't we lie about them?!

Cobain: Yeah, right!

Aldman: [laughs]

Novoselic: Never let the truth get in the way of a good story! It's a shame when the media does that, though, they have such a responsibility. To proliferate such garbage like that, it's a shame!

Aldman: When it comes to your future, there's all sorts of rumors about how your next album will sound - some people say, "It's gonna be really wild, raw and confusing," some say, "It's gonna be really quiet, acoustic and pretty"…

Grohl: How does anyone know?!?! Do we know?!?!

Novoselic: Where do they get their information??

Cobain: We're recording our record next month! Did you know that?!

Grohl: Are we? Are we gonna do it in my basement?

Novoselic: I was thinking about that… we'll have to do that…

Grohl: Are we gonna do it in my basement? Where are we gonna do it?

Cobain: Some of it… I'd like to try to do some of it, but I think I'd like to do it at Reciprocal…

Novoselic: Yeah…

Cobain: With Steve Albini and Jack Endino…

Grohl: Wow…

Cobain: Not at the same time, but I was thinking maybe we should record all the songs with Jack Endino, then all the songs with Steve Albini and let someone hear it…

Novoselic: You heard it here first!! [laughs]

Cobain: And then pick the best of all of them!

Grohl: So we're gonna do it next month?

Cobain: I'd love to. I'd like to do it right away…

Grohl: That would be great!

Novoselic: It has to be pressed by November! See, that's the whole thing, it has to be on shelves by November…

Grohl: Yeah.

Aldman: Is that in your contract?

Novoselic: No, it's just our…

Cobain: It's our demand, damn it!

Aldman: You only have a contract for 1 more record with Geffen, is that right?

Cobain: No, 7… 6 or 7… our career…

Aldman: Are you pleased with that company, the way they work?

Novoselic: Yeah, they're good.

Grohl: They're nice people.

Novoselic: As major labels go… it's just all business-type, rock 'n' roll business blah… it ties my head in knots.

Grohl: It's better to keep your mind off the business aspect of the whole deal and just focus on the…

Novoselic: It's kinda gross…

Cobain: But you have to be aware of it, or people start taking advantage of you.

Grohl: That's true…

Aldman: You were talking about how and when you're gonna record the album, but not how it will sound…

Novoselic: How will it sound?

Cobain: Oh…

Aldman: Will it be this raw, wild and confusing thing? Or will it be acoustic and pretty?

Novoselic: "Raw, wild and confusing," that's a good album cover or a name… Now, if our record's that name you're gonna go, "Shit!" You're gonna go, "Those guys, man! 'Raw, Wild And Confusing'" We'll be on the cover going… No, one of us is gonna look raw and is gonna be naked, one of us is gonna look wild in a loincloth like some wild man, and one of us is gonna look really confused: "Raw, Wild And Confusing"

Aldman: [laughs] Right…

Cobain: Oh, both, a mixture of both. It won't be as clean as the last album, that's for sure! Maybe a few songs will, but we really don't want to go into a 24-track studio and have a professional producer and a professional mixologist at the wheels. I think we'd like to do it ourselves this time.

Aldman: You're not going to work with Butch Vig?

Cobain: I dunno…

Novoselic: The next record is gonna be kind of a litmus test for the audience, to see what they're capable of, if they wanna hear all the pretty songs or something a bit more challenging.

LIVE NIRVANA INTERVIEW ARCHIVE June 30, 1992 - Stockholm, SE

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